A Leadership Coach's Perspective | Luis Velasquez

Natasha Nuytten: Welcome to Human Side Up. This is Natasha Nuytten, your host, and I am excited to share a conversation with you today with my friend Luis Velasquez. Luis is a leadership coach and the founder and managing partner of Velas Coaching, an executive coaching firm based in Silicon Valley. His background combines extensive academic and practical experience, making him a very notable figure in the field of executive coaching. He leads the Interpersonal Dynamics course at Stanford University Graduate School of Business and is a regular contributor to Harvard Business Review and Fast Company on leadership development and resilience. He has also authored an excellent book titled Ordinary Resilience, Rethinking How Effective Leaders Adapt and Thrive. During our conversation, we talked about the relationship between our individual development and growth as leaders, Luis' personal experience and the distance he has traveled, an amazing story, and the importance of curiosity and openness. I know you're going to enjoy this conversation. 

Natasha Nuytten: Luis Velasquez, thank you so much for being here. I'm very excited to have you on. I have enjoyed getting to know you as a human being over the last couple of months and am very excited about the fact that we align on so many things. And so I look forward to this conversation and being able to share some of the insights that you have and some of your personal experience and professional experience with this community of leaders who are looking to create more dynamic and inclusive environments in their organizations just to bring humanity to leadership. So thank you for being here. 

Luis Velasquez: Natasha, thank you so much for inviting me. I'm humbled and surprised that you decided to invite me. Thank you. 

Natasha Nuytten: It's my pleasure. So one of the things that we like to ask here on this podcast is to get a little familiarity with who you are and where you come from is a two-part question. And it is, what are one or two words that you would use to describe yourself that we might not find on your very impressive CV / resume that have really become a part of the fabric of who you are as a human being? And if you could share just a little bit about how or when maybe you started to own those things about yourself as truth that you hold. 

Luis Velasquez: I think that the word that I like to describe myself as and I want to embody that label is resilient. I want to be known as resilient. I want to be shown as a resilient individual. And I believe that is part of the fabric of my being. However, if I go one step down, for me, resilience has three components. Number one is committed. I'm committed to whatever I decide to do. I'm committed to my wife, committed to my clients, committed to my purpose. And I use committed because it has an emotional component behind it. You can say I am decisive, but decisive is from the head. I think commitment comes also from the head, but also from your heart. So commitment is number one. Persistent is the other one is I am relentless. I like to do hard things. I have run over 100 marathons. My longest run is 105 miles. I have survived three brain surgeries. I moved to the States not knowing English and went to university and got a PhD, became a professor, all of those things. So I like to do things that are hard. And I realized that some of those things are not easy to do. And I think that a lot of times we confuse pain with uncomfortability. For instance, people say, I don't want to talk to my manager because it's too painful. I don't want to go to work because it's too painful. And the reality is that it's not painful. It might be uncomfortable. And the reality is that life is hard too. There are so many things that are happening there. But you're persistent. You realize that there are things that need to be done. You've got to do them because you're committed. And the last part is that I am optimistic. I used to call myself the most optimistic person in the world. And if you remember, and I think that for me, that was a coping mechanism. I grew up in Guatemala in a time that was a lot of war and under extreme poverty. I'm being optimistic, thinking, oh, this will pass. This shall pass. I can see myself doing something that was a coping mechanism for me, a defense mechanism to avoid suffering. But it actually helped me really well to get where I am. So that combination of those three things, commitment, persistence, and optimism is what I call my formula of resilience. And that's what I think that kind of defines me. 

Natasha Nuytten: That's an entire podcast just to ask you more questions about the thing that you just dropped as an opener there. I think it is true that there are layers to resilience, right? It has components to it. And I love that you've shared, thank you, about how you've come to those in your life. And an endurance athlete, hard things, right? Coming from a place and seeing something for yourself that wasn't necessarily available to you right where you were and making that a reality for yourself and continuing to push through those things and being incredibly optimistic that you could do those things and that you could achieve those things. And then, overcoming physical adversities, not only in your endurance athlete endeavors, but with the brain surgeries and dealing with all of those things that come with that. So thank you for that. We're going to unpack, we're going to unpack some of those things. And I would love to understand that sort of combination, like you've laid out a little bit of your journey. How did those things lead you into coaching? Because the reality is you came to coaching via plants, right? Like this whole other world of research and living things. And you came to this work as a result of that. But really, when I've heard you talk about your story in the past, there are these threads all the way through. And I would love to understand a little bit more, maybe how that journey led you to leading leaders and coaching leaders. 

Luis Velasquez: Let me see, how can I start this? Where can I start this part? So I think that my dream when I came to the States was to finish my education and become a professor. So I did, I became a professor of fungal genetics at Michigan State University. And at the moment I thought, okay, this is great. I have a mate, it's done. All I have to do is to get some funding, publish a book. Get some funding, publish some papers and get tenure and I'm done. Life doesn't work sometimes like that. Life throws some curveballs and all of us, have curveballs at one point or another in our lives. My life curveball came in the form of a brain tumor. And so I was diagnosed with a brain tumor. And then when I came back from the surgery and some of the recovery, the doctor told me that I had to accept my new reality. And my new reality is that I probably wouldn't be going back to teaching for a while because I have some cognitive issues and I probably wouldn't be able to walk straight for, I don't know when, if ever. So if you remember, when I mentioned that I was always very positive all the time. I consider myself the most positive person in the world, and I realized that's okay. I'm sure that there is something else that I could do. I'm sure that there is something else that I can actually do. And the first thing that I wanted to do was to get my health back, get better. And in order for me to do that, I frame it. I wanted to run a marathon. And I said to myself, I'm gonna, literally I framed it, my recovery as my marathon training. So I wasn't recovering from a brain surgery, I was training for a marathon. And so that's how I started running. And that's, it's a slippery slope. Once you run one, you start another one, and you can see how far I could go. In terms of professionally and how I got to coaching, at that moment, I survived the tumor, but neither my professional dreams nor my marriage survived. So I needed to figure out a way to reinvent myself, and honestly, I think that a lot of times, when we are in transition, the first thing that we do is we change our title from employee to consultant. It's transition, the 90% of people that are consultants are people in transition. And that's what I did, and I started looking for a job, but at the same time, I was looking for consulting opportunities. And I, there is only one person, how can I put this? If I go and revisit all the beautiful moments in my life, I can see that it is one person that has pushed me, a person that has criticized me, a person that has given me an opportunity or unlocked something. And that person, one person came and they say, I think that we can use you as a consultant. And, but the caveat is that you'll be working in the Middle East in Saudi Arabia. And at that time, we were in the middle of the war in the Middle East and everybody was leaving. And here I am going in, and I started as a consultant for a company. Because of my background in sciences, I was working as a consultant in the sciences. Here is where it gets interesting. I was sitting at my desk one day with the HR VP of that company came into my office and said, Luis, I'm giving a presentation tomorrow, can you help me? And I said, sure, I'll help you. And then, a couple days later, he came back and said, Luis, I'm having this issue, can you help me to figure it out? And he said, absolutely, let's do this. Later came back and he said, I have two VPs that need your help. Can you help them? And I said, yeah, sure. I didn't know what I was doing, and at that time, if you remember, that 2005, 2006, it was the economic crisis worldwide. And so consultants and companies were losing jobs everywhere. And the company that I was working for realized what I was doing and they told me, you're a coach. So they started marketing me as a coach. And literally, I had no experience and no education as a coach. I was just helping people. 

Natasha Nuytten: How did you feel about that? Like having someone come and say, this is this gift that you have obviously you did it, but what was the, to hear that, right? Like you were just doing you. And then someone comes along and puts a label on it in this whole new world. What was your, how did you feel about that? What was your take on that? 

Luis Velasquez: To tell you the truth, it was a relief for me. Because at that point, I had no idea what I was going to do with my life. I didn't know. So it's oh, wow, I can do that? I can, and I heard of coaching, but I never knew that you had to do some, education or whatnot, so when they labeled me as a coach, for me, it was a great opportunity to start doing something different. Potentially can become a, I wasn't thinking of becoming an independent coach. I was just thinking about continuing my journey as a consultant. Yeah, so they sent me to 22 countries to coach. All of these countries, this company has a very interesting niche. The niche is they're supporting American companies in developing economies. So the work that I did wasn't, I didn't do much of the fancy travel, I went to Congo in the middle of the, in the middle of the Ebola crisis. I went to Sudan in the middle of the war between South Sudan and North Sudan. I was in the Middle East when the, some of the, what do you call the Middle East spring started, the unrest there. Yeah, so it was everywhere, so it was amazing. So that's how I became a coach. Moved back in 2008 to the United States and I started running. And in 2012, I just finished one of the most grueling races that I had ever done, the Western States 100, it's 100 miles. And I was in the best shape of my life. I was happy, I just found a new person, we were married already, my life was already great. And then all of a sudden, the tumor came back. So I was so afraid that it's going to be like the first time around. And my wife didn't leave. So she actually supported me and stayed with me. But I lost my job. The company decided that they couldn't keep me on payroll for such a long time. So I said, okay, fine, so I decided to start looking for another job. And I was sitting in an interview in a company. And the person that was interviewing me told me, Luis, we're not going to hire you here. You don't fit here. You don't have the experience because I was, I wanted to do some, go back to biotechnology and science. You don't have the experience or to do something here. However, he said, the reason why I'm telling you this is because I don't fit here either. And I am, I'm looking for someone to help me transition. Will you help me? Will you coach me? And I am like, absolutely. So there was a little bulb right there. And I was like, that's what I'm going to be doing now. Instead of looking for a job, I'm going to start looking for clients. And that's when I planted my coaching practice. And since then, I've been very fortunate that people want to work with me. I have been coaching lots of CEOs and individuals. I, as a result of that, I actually teach at Stanford University, a class of interpersonal dynamics. And it's been great since then. So that's the transition. 

Natasha Nuytten: Talk about underselling. I like to do hard things. It was such a small little piece of what you said when you shared your story and how you came to these things. But it's just been a series of undertaking very large challenges. And that's clearly a part of your fabric. And I think it's not a surprise to me, having heard part of your story before, but hearing it again, and in this context, and all together, really underscores, I think, why it is that you excel so much in going into work with people who are making big changes. And why you're brought in to work with leaders who are, maybe their company's going through a big thing, or they personally are going through a big thing, but making a big change in how they do their work, or why they're doing the things that they're doing. And so I'm really curious, I know that one thing that you have done a lot of is helping leaders understand themselves, and their organizations, I guess I would say success profiles, and really understanding that, we all know that culture is important. But I would really love to understand from you in thinking about, as we develop as leaders, and you're coaching these folks and talking them through this process, why is it so critical that we start with leadership and thinking about what a success profile looks like in our organization or in our business? 

Luis Velasquez: Why is it important that we start with that layer of the onion to make change? I would like to answer that question, but before I answer the question, I want to go back to what you mentioned about saying, thank you for complimenting me on the hard things that I've done. And I think that was the feedback that I get all the time. And then, through interactions with the leaders that I coach, I realized that it's not unique to me. And that's one of the reasons why I wrote the book, Ordinary Resilience, that when I mentioned at the beginning, that we all have the capacity to get better. That's what we want to do. The world doesn't belong to the people that know the most, but the people that learn the fastest. And I think that we all have the capacity to commit. We all have the capacity to undergo hard things because we all have done that. If we think about our lives, we have at one point or another, we did, we have done something that is hard. And we all have the capacity to see the future and envision ourselves looking, beyond the situation that where we are today. So thank you for explaining that. But at the same time, I want to mention that what I've done is nothing extraordinary. It's just the situations that I've been in are extraordinary. But what I can do, anybody can if they are committed, persistent, and optimistic, because that's what we are already doing anyway. That is the fabric of our DNA, period. 

Natasha Nuytten: There is that optimism. I align with you on that. I agree with you. I don't know that everyone feels like they have that. And so I love that as a coach, that is the, that's really what you're giving people is the knowledge that they can do hard things, right? Absolutely. If they put their mind to it. Yeah, that's fantastic. 

Luis Velasquez: But now, when you talk about the leaders, why it's important for leaders to, to, can you rephrase the question again? So I didn't make it. 

Natasha Nuytten: Yes, absolutely. I'm curious, like we all know when thinking about culture, right? We all know as leaders, we know culture is important. We know we need to nurture it and foster it and good cultures are great and bad cultures are really bad. But I'm curious if we all have a different opinion as to how that sort of plays out, right? And there's this theory, but you're so involved in helping folks who are in the process of really executing change and really implementing the foundational pieces within their leadership team to make sure that they're creating these cultures. And I'm curious, other than the sort of trickle down effect, right? Or permeation that comes from leadership in culture, why is it so important that we start there? What is the impact of thoughtful leadership or thoughtful change at the leadership level that makes it possible for the rest of us to do the hard things? 

Luis Velasquez: Yeah so part of the niche that I, part of the work that I do is I work with people that are highly valuable in their organizations, and very highly valuable. And sometimes organizations can't afford to lose, but they're difficult to work with. They are the bullies, the people that make the psychological safety not being safe, let's put it that way, and the reason why I work with them is because I believe that 99% of the population don't wake up in the morning and say, I'm going to be an asshole today, or I'm going to be difficult today, and I think that we all want to have the intention of creating a place where they feel comfortable. And when I mean them, sometimes they don't think about how they come across to others. And a lot of these individuals, they're focused on results, they're focused on results, they're focused on what they want to accomplish, that they miss the view of below, how people are perceiving it and how people are seeing them. So the key here for me is to bring awareness to them from the perspective of, listen, this is how you're being seen, this is how you're being looked at, and they don't like that. You see what I'm saying? So when you tell them, you're being perceived as a jerk, you're being perceived as an asshole, they don't like that. So the immediate question is, how do you want to change that? How do you want to change that? And I love that because a lot of these leaders, they only need that. It's just the awareness and a way of shifting how they're being perceived. And that has an incredible trickle effect in the fabric of the organizations that they run. So why is it important that they start at the leadership role? It's because they have the biggest impact, they have the, and the reality is that children mimic the behavior of their parents just the same way as managers mimic the behavior of their managers. They mimic the behaviors of their leaders. So if the leader is kind, compassionate, that is going to trickle down. If the leader is mean, doesn't care about anything, that will trickle down. So that's why it's important because that's where the biggest impact is. There is something that, there is an executive amplification, what they do has an incredible influence in how others behave. So they, the key here is that they need three components. A, they want to, I help them to realize what they want to be known for. I want to be known for a great leader, a caring leader. That's number one, awareness. The second one is, okay, so now what are the skills that you need to do that? Giving feedback, engaging people, helping people grow, asking questions, all of those things. And the last part that I think that is the least useful is the habits and the practices that they need to do all the time, because the reality that I have seen is that everybody knows, most people know that what they're doing is bad. They know how to do it differently because they treat some people differently than others. I talk to, I talk to their wives, their children, their friends, and they're completely different from the people that they, you know, their employees. So it's a matter of wanting to do that and committing to do that. 

Natasha Nuytten: Yeah, there's something really interesting in what you said that sort of triggered for me, we've all been in organizations where the values are on the wall. Everyone can, they heard them at that intake, right? They may hear about them once a year in their annual review. But the behavior that's actually rewarded is different than what's on the wall, right? Or what supposedly what they're being measured against. And I think for me, that's what you're talking about there is we know the right thing to do, right? But like developing those habits means that everybody else gets to, they know what they're supposed to say. They know what they're supposed to do to get rewarded or to get the promotion or to be valued in the organization. And that dissonance, if leaders are doing something different, then it creates a lot of dissonance and challenge for folks as they're moving through things. So I think, again, it's there's that theory, right? As a leader, we've heard this, you probably learned it for those folks who went to business school, for those of us who, just found our way in. Like you learn that and you've heard it, but practicing it can be a very different thing. So a lot of your coaching really emphasizes resilience and integrity and that growth mindset. And I think, again, a lot of leaders know that those things are important, but really executing against that day to day and building and developing those habits is different. Can you educate us a little bit on some of the sort of practical business implications of leaders building that resilience and integrity and growth mindset in their organization? Yeah, you're a better leader. Okay. Like, how do we start to think about what the implications of that are across the organization in a way that is tangible and measurable? What, how do we see that? 

Luis Velasquez: Leadership is, and this is the hard part about leadership is that everybody wants to measure it and they all have different metrics. And the reality is that it's very hard to, to measure, the effect of the leadership in a percent. What you can measure, what you can see is some of the outcomes of a good leadership. And I think that, employee engagement, people are engaged. The biggest driver of employee engagement is the relationship that people have with their managers. So if you, if people want to leave, if people want to quit, if people are looking to, that is not an engaged employee. And if you look back, you can start seeing what is it and why is that happening? Now, number one, I think that leaders need to model the way. Yeah. Now, what does that look like? What does that look like? And I think that, if I go back and I see the biggest three errors that people do is number one is missing the personal connection that they might have with their employees. Some people say I don't need to have friends. I'm here to tell them what to do. And I keep my relationship separate from work or home. And I think that they're missing an opportunity there to connect with their employees. Because when you are connected at the personal level, then, you care for each other and you have each other's well-being. And we care for each other and you want to try to make sure that you do things for each other. Not because it's a job, but because you care about the other person. That's number one. The other thing that I think that managers don't do well is differentiating the conversation that they need to have. And what I mean by that is a lot of times, managers have two hats to wear. What I call the leadership hat and the manager hat. The leadership that is the person that wants people to grow, that wants people to, to take risks, that cares about, I want you to grow. I want you to take risks. I want you to do this the way you want to do it. And at the same time, they have the manager hat where they say, this is the goal and this is how you need to do it and go do it. It sounds more direct. And a lot of times, they don't know which hat they are wearing when talking to employees. So they get confused. I want you to grow, but I want you to do it this way because blah, blah, blah. You see what I'm saying? So I think that if they can discern, and I do, this is literally a metaphor that I use with the coaches I lead, with the leaders I coach, if you need to tell them what hat you are wearing at any given moment. Because that gives you permission to have the hard conversations or that gives you permission to be soft and help them grow. And the last one, I think that this is very important, is allowing people to take risks. Yeah. And the reality is that people don't want to make mistakes and don't want to fail, and they're afraid of that. And if on the other end, the manager treats failures the same across every single failure, then people won't take risks. And I think that there are some failures that shouldn't be allowed. There are failures that you should be flexible, but there are some failures that also need to be, you need to be happy and celebrate them. Yeah. So the ones that are not to be allowed are, the ones that you're cutting corners, that you're actually trying to make a mistake on purpose. And you're, you're just not wanting to do your job. The ones that are allowed is that you do your effort, but there are circumstances that are beyond your control that got in the way that you cannot, you couldn't complete the job, like a pandemic started or something else happened, and the last one is a lot of times, we fail because we learn something. And those are the ones, the failures that, you know, where people say we need to fail fast. I wish they will emphasize that it is a type of failure that we're talking about. However, they all treat the failures as if they weren't the first type, that I'm just not doing my job. So those are the three things that I think that I see, in managers, number one is making sure that they have a personal connection with their employees. Number two is, the idea that the failure does not treat all the failures the same. And number two, gosh, I just miss it. What was number two? 

Natasha Nuytten: It was the, it was actually pure genius and I'm hanging on to it. It's the, having, being specific about the hat that you're wearing when you're giving, when you're giving feedback and direction and support, right? 

Luis Velasquez: So if you do this, and to tell you the truth, everything else will get in place if those three things are in place. I'm very fond of the principle, the Keystone Habit. I don't know if you have heard of the Keystone Habit. It is the, what is the one thing that you can do that will influence everything? And I think that, when I coach people and I look at this, I think that if they do those three things, that will influence absolutely every single thing that they do and people are going to be engaged and people are going to be resilient and so forth. 

Natasha Nuytten: Yeah, there's a lot there. Like I said, I'm, a little light went off and I got to put it in a box over here because of that notion of sharing the hat that I'm wearing as I'm speaking to you. And I, it's just practical advice because for instance, in my role as a CEO in a startup, we're moving fast all the time. And I'm thinking about 8,000 things. And I look at my primary job as helping the team be individually and collectively successful. How do I help them do their best and have their best experience so that we can all move the ball downfield, right? And sometimes if I'm moving a thousand miles an hour, it is, I might slip into that coach mode or mentor mode, but I might not be doing it with quite the intention and the, or maybe not the intention, but the thoughtfulness that I might need to have to be in that role. And so it may not come off or be perceived in quite the way that I'm hoping that it is, or vice versa. Maybe I've spent a little too much time over here and what I really need to do is this is a little bit more direct, right? And I need to be specific about that and it's okay. Both of those roles are okay, but it's being really clear about where you are and which of these that is. I've heard it put in one, it's that sort of recognizing that your thoughts, opinions, et cetera, as a leader are outsized, right? Like your vote doesn't count for one vote. It counts for a larger vote sometimes. And you have to be really conscientious of that. 

Luis Velasquez: Absolutely. Yes. I've seen a lot of times, the leaders that like to think out loud and when they think out loud, their direct reporters immediately assume that those are instructions. So there are suggestions and they go after, after those things. So I think that being very specific about, being clear about where you are in the center of mind and what you were doing before, saying, okay, I thought about this, now let's go do this. And you brought up a very interesting point about the leadership hat and the management hat. And I think that there is another way to look at this is employers sometimes need support and sometimes need direction and help. And what I've seen a lot of leaders sometimes, they go on more supportive, oh, you can do this, you blah, blah, blah, they miss the mark. And some of them are going too much on the direction part. They become micromanagers. And I think that's the key is to understand where do you stand, but also where the employee is, because if it is a new employee, you want to give them a little more direction. But as they gain skills, then you start taking the direction away and start giving them more support to the point where they are completely independent. Otherwise people stay in the, only in the direction and they become micromanagers. Let's put it that way. Yeah. But having said that, another thing that I think that is, is we're talking about here from a very, almost like a blanket perspective, this is what leaders need to do. And I think that there is another element that, that is, let's talk about and it's about, then, is what the employees need, not based on skills, but based also on where are we coming from? What are we comfortable with? What level of risk I am open and willing to take now? And I think that, that doesn't show up. And that's why the connection of the manager with employees is important because then he can see, or she can see, what this person needs because we're not the same. 

Natasha Nuytten: Yeah. I love that your head just, that your head and your heart just went there because I know those two are often moving in the same direction. Because what I was thinking about is in teaching, we're talking about this at a leadership level. But when I think about it, some of the folks you'll be listening to are serving in a talent acquisition or human resources position where maybe in leadership, this is a whole separate conversation. Leadership isn't necessarily everyone at the top, right? There are leaders all throughout the organization. And so thinking about those folks who may not be in those positions we've been talking about so far, but who might be more in a relationship with someone or a working relationship with someone where leaning into that connection is more part of their day to day. And they can, it takes time, right? It takes time to, and it doesn't have to be hours and hours, but it does take intention and time to, to foster that connection especially when we're trying to create organizations where we've built dynamic, diverse teams where people do need different things and they are coming from different places. And to the point that you just made, which I thought was excellent is they're not all ready to do the thing, right? And so we are coaching them and mentoring them all at these different paces. So I would love, if you wouldn't mind, can you give us a couple of really practical tips that someone, no matter where they are in the organization that's a leader, but maybe not in the C-suite, but maybe, maybe entry level, but has those sort of leadership qualities where they're leaning into the folks around them, where they could help in a, in an effort to nurture their diverse team and create that inclusion, how they might be able to help foster some of that sort of resilience and growth. Are there any sort of practical, and I know we're speaking in generalities here, but are there maybe a couple of practical tips you could offer up? 

Luis Velasquez: I, a few years ago I decided to join a mastermind, to, I wanted to up my business or whatnot, and I found myself in this group of people that didn't look like me and I was absolutely completely intimidated, by them. And that intimidation made me not show up, not show up. That's number one. And number two, I think that the other thing that happened is that I started feeling jealous about the things that they've done that I didn't have access to. And when then I realized that, that's what was happening, so I decided to shift my mindset from being intimidated to being inspired. Oh my God, they can do that, I can do it too, and instead of feeling intimidated or instead of feeling jealous, I decided to shift it to curiosity, so ask questions. I'm jealous of X, maybe that is a sign that I need to work on that, so tell me how you do it, how are you doing, what's your experience? That's from the perspective of me doing it. From their perspective, I think this is what you're getting at, is that I think that what we need to do as leaders is to be curious about the other individual. Hey, where did you grow up? What's important for you? What's your values? All of those things, because the more you ask those questions, the more you get to know the individual, and most importantly, the more you build that connection. So if I, the practical is just to be curious. Be curious about personal, the employees that you work with. Not because you want to be a great leader, or not because you really care, you're really curious about them, period. 

Natasha Nuytten: Yeah, I, it's the, be interested, not interesting, concept, right? 

Luis Velasquez: Yeah. And to tell you the truth, when I was in that particular group, I realized that there was an element that people didn't, people are always afraid of what is different. I got an accent, I am Hispanic, I'm a person of color, and I think that, we all have implied biases, and those biases are sometimes are stopping us from asking questions because we don't, and we don't even know it, so I think that from the perspective of the employee, from my perspective is I need to be open to ask questions myself, but leaders, they're running all the time, they're doing all those things, they don't stop and think about, what this person, who is this person really, what is important to them? And I think that is time well spent in creating a team and a culture that is cohesive, effective, but resilient as well. So there is not really, there is not a list of things here. You simply get to know each other.  

Natasha Nuytten: I love it. I could talk to you for hours. I won't today because I know you have a family and commitments and all of those things, but I'm really grateful for you because I think that everything we've talked about, while we haven't drilled into hey, this is what drives, diversity or innovation, it is what drives diversity and innovation, that connection and that opportunity to be curious and to help people be resilient and to learn from those failings and to take a hard look at themselves and all these things that you've talked about, doing hard things, all of that drives resilience and organizations and people and really takes it from ordinary to extraordinary, like really helps make that leap. So thank you so much. 

Luis Velasquez: Before we go, I think that you mentioned something that I really think that is important that I talk about is that people are sometimes are, I don't want to say afraid, but we are, we're surprised, we react when we're surprised and we're not expecting something that is different. And I think that a lot of times, managers equate people that are different. So if I have a different opinion, oh, you're difficult. If I see a problem, oh my God, you're so negative. You see what I'm saying? But it's not about the employee, but it's the ability of the manager to manage people that have contrarian opinions on that. Remember, I was telling the difference between being painful and being uncomfortable, they're uncomfortable with sometimes a little opinions that are different. And the reality is that diversity of thought most naturally will come from diversity of different types of diversity, not just racial diversity, but people that are different. And I think that one thing that I, that I really love to coach is people that are perceived as difficult employees. And because sometimes those difficult employees are not difficult, they're just different. And a lot of times, managers don't know how to deal with what is different. Do they label it difficult? And I can, and I see a pattern a lot of times is the people that are labeled difficult are people that are different. 

Natasha Nuytten: Interesting. I love it. So I appreciate you dropping that little nugget. I was going to ask you if there's anything that I haven't asked that I should have or anything you'd like to leave us with as we wrap. 

Luis Velasquez: I think that the premise of my book is the following, that the book is, to think differently, to act differently, we need to think differently and to think differently, we need to see differently. And I think that the only way you can see differently is if we are open and curious and asking for feedback and asking for suggestions and get to know each other and get to know people. So I think that we as leaders should be relentless about asking for feedback, asking for suggestions, getting to know people, because that is data that will make us see the world differently and therefore think differently and potentially act differently. 

Natasha Nuytten: I love it. Great gems there. Thank you so much, Luis, for your time. 

Luis Velasquez: Thank you so much for having me. I hope that I wasn't mumbling. 

Natasha Nuytten: No, not at all. Not at all. And I appreciate, again, you've just underscored for me how much I appreciate your thoughtfulness in our conversations and really taking a moment to understand, but also to respond to the heart of the matter. So I really appreciate that. So thank you. 

Natasha Nuytten: So there you have it. Having had other opportunities to speak with Luis on many topics, I was not at all surprised by his reflection and his thoughtfulness. And I trust that you will have found as many gems in this conversation as I did. I appreciate you listening, and check out the show notes below for how you can connect with Luis and let us know what you thought of the episode. Thanks for listening.